MY COUSIN MINISTER
Believes the Bible
LK: Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2023 9:42 AM
To: My Cousin, a retired Minister
Subject: God
... You're with UCC, aren't you? UCC is involved in that nursery project for ex-prisoners in Oakland, that I wrote you about recently. So it probably is a Godly project. I guess you and I first met in 1965. We corresponded a little. After you got out of the disservice, you wanted to go into the movie industry. You married ... in 1970 or so and Phil and I visited you around that time. ... I think you went to Salt Lake City for a few years before deciding to go into ministry. Right? From 1975-95 I followed a non-Christian religion that was sort of Christian, but I eventually found that it was likely false. I studied messianic Judaism for a while, which believes Jesus is savior, but doesn't follow traditional Christianity. I never believed that "faith" or "belief" in Jesus is salvation. I found that the Greek word for "faith" actually meant more like "faithful".
I started a blog, called Acts 15 church, at https://acts15church.substack.com/archive.
In 2006 I visited a guy in Ohio who was Mennonite. He later sent me a link to a website about EVIDENCE THE BIBLE REQUIRES UNANIMOUS NOT MAJORITY RULE, which I discussed at https:// acts15church.substack.com/p/righteous-government.
Acts 15 was the main source on that, but the New Testament has a lot of hints about unanimous rule where it discusses unity etc. I never believed that God wrote the Bible. I have one post saying I'm a heretic like Jesus. I think angels inspired much of the Bible and by saying God wrote it they likely meant God's angels wrote it, although there are a lot of errors introduced by mortals. I think it's possible that the patriarchs were real and that some of them wrote down their history, which Moses then put into the Pentateuch. That's what another guy told me, and it's plausible to me. You apparently have considered conventional dating methods to be correct, but mainstream science is corrupt like the rest of society and the best evidence is, IMO, that all sedimentary rock strata were deposited by the Great Flood, (except some that was deposited in a later Flood. I have a blog on geology too.) I don't have faith that the patriarchs were real, but it's plausible and if Earth's gravity was weaker and the atmosphere was thicker before the Flood, with more oxygen and CO2, it's possible that people and animals lived longer and some grew taller before the Flood. There's abundant evidence for the Flood, but not so much for the patriarchs. Creation.com and ICR.org have a lot of good scientific articles. They have some bias, but much less than mainstream science. I'm not a "creationist", but they have a lot of good info. Two things in the Bible that I know of suggest that by God it means God's angels. One is the case of the beings who appeared to Lot, I think, before the destruction of the cities of the plain by the Dead Sea. They were called angles, men, and Lord God within a few adjacent verses. Another case is when God spoke to Moses in a burning bush, the story is retold by Stephen in the New Testament, but instead of saying God spoke to Moses, he said an angel spoke to Moses through the burning bush.
You have a formal way of talking to God, but I like to talk casually. I learned back in the 1980s that God doesn't expect us to be perfect right now and be perfectly responsible to carry out every imaginable obligation that we should handle perfectly asap. Instead, God wants to be our best friend who is always available to give us the best advice there is for any situation. Life is a school to develop our moral learning. There is no eternal hell, just correction, or "purification". So I call God anything that comes to mind, even derogatory terms, like friends are free to do with each other. Another thing I wanted to add is that salvation, IMO, means following Jesus' example of Love for All. We don't have to believe in Jesus to be saved. We just have to have faith that God and the universe is good and we have to learn to follow Jesus' example, even if we believe Jesus is a myth. I think Jesus probably existed and resurrected as evidenced by the shroud of Turin. But I think anyone can be Christian just by following Jesus' example, regardless of beliefs. ...
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DS: On Tuesday, May 16, 2023, 01:35:44 PM CDT, {Cousin} wrote:
... You have many ideas about the Bible, God, Jesus and eternal salvation, culled from a variety of sources. I’ve heard of most of them over time. While we could go back and forth about the truths of each one, to me the bottom line is this: Each person chooses what they will believe, and each of us will face the consequences at some time. Our choice is based upon our faith in God and His superiority in every way; or it’s based on our human thinking, which is limited, as bright and insightful as they may be. I have chosen to believe in God, and I believe that He inspired the writing of the Bible, and those men who wrote it. I believe that all of the characters mentioned in the Bible were real, and that all that it records is real and happened as recorded in the Bible. I believe those things because to me they make sense. As a human, I don’t like everything I find in the Bible, the difficult things; but I believe that what God and Jesus say is true.
I respect the beliefs of other people, certainly you, because I know that you have done a great deal of research. It’s important to research the consistency of the Bible and the character of God, as described in the Bible. I believe that salvation comes through Jesus alone, because the Bible confirms that, and because God has been consistent about believing in Him and His will throughout the Bible. God never asks us to understand Him, because He knows we cannot. He only asks us to accept that what He says is true, even if we don’t fully understand what He says. It comes to the issue of faith in His word, the Bible, or faith in incomplete human wisdom – in what I choose to think and believe. It’s our choice.
If you wish, I’d be happy to discuss this further. May God grant you the health and life to know Him ever better. ...
LK: On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 07:47:19 PM CDT, {I} wrote:
... do you believe, then, that the Earth was created before the Sun, Moon and stars in 6 days? And that it was such hard work for God, that He had to rest on the 7th day? And do you believe in Noah's Flood that occurred 1,600 or so years after creation? ...
From: {me}
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2023 4:13 PM
To: {Cousin}
Subject: Re: God …
Do you believe in Eternal Hell? The headline on the homepage of this website https://tentmaker.org/ reads: What is the Victorious Glorious Gospel of Grace? Jesus, The Chosen One, Saves All!
That website has several papers that back up that headline. It says Emperor Justinian had the word "eternal" added to the word "hell" in the Bible 5 centuries after Jesus. The parable of the Good Shepherd implies the same thing, that Jesus will save all. Some seem to worry that such a doctrine is too permissive and people would feel free to sin all the time. But we disagree. There is still pain from sinfulness; it's just not eternal. Hell is supposed to mean purification, not punishment. Any comments?
Recently, I asked you: ..., do you believe, then, that the Earth was created before the Sun, Moon and stars in 6 days? And that it was such hard work for God, that He had to rest on the 7th day? And do you believe in Noah's Flood that occurred 1,600 or so years after creation?
I think I discussed Noah's flood or something with you when I visited you in 2015. Didn't I? I think I mentioned that conventional dating methods are messed up and that Noah's flood occurred about 5,300 years ago and it deposited almost all of the sedimentary rock strata on Earth. Creationists claim that the Earth is only about 6 or 7,000 year old. There's evidence that the continents are not over 8,000 years old, but I think it's likely that the Earth is older.
I asked what you think about God resting on the 7th day, because I think angels of God inspired the Bible and they used language that people could kind of understand. We know God never rests and creating anything of any size is not at all a difficulty for God. The story of the angels who visited Lot shows that angels inspired the Bible, because it refers to the angels as angels, men and Lord God, which to me indicates that they considered themselves God's messengers, so they referred to their own words to humans as God's words. I think the Bible says the word of God came to Abraham and others before the Bible was written. So the word of God likely meant angels' inspiration. Also, someone said the Patriarchs wrote down their experiences and Moses had access to their writings and he composed the Bible with them. I don't know much about that, but it seems plausible. If they sometimes really lived over 900 years, then they could have learned a lot, including writing, and passed on their knowledge to later generations.
When I visited you in 2015, it seemed like you accepted conventional dating of the Earth and rock strata etc. If so, do you still accept conventional dating etc?
DS: On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 11:48:44 AM CDT, {Cousin} wrote:
... Thanks for the questions and comments. As regards Hell, I believe what the Bible says about it. The real punishment of Hell is that we are eternally separated from God. People reject the idea of going to Hell because the idea is so repulsive. But life here shows us over and over that decisions, words and actions have consequences. That is Hell. God wants us to respond to Him in love and obedience instead of fear of Hell, but it is a consequence of rejecting His Word in the Bible.
There is a great debate among scientists about the age of the world and the universe. It’s hard for them to believe that both are so young. But I believe that’s because they put their wisdom before that of God. They reject God, and what He claims He has done and can do.
I do not. When the Bible says God rested it can also be understood that He simply stopped.
So I believe that Earth and the Universe are less than 8,000 years old. It’s interesting to me that an increasing number of scientists are rethinking their previous beliefs to accept the Biblical record, as they reexamine scientific material.
As for the role of angels, I just don’t know. While the Bible mentions angels often, it is not clear to me exactly what they do and do not do. Angels seem to be used interchangeably with God, and the same is true with what they sometimes say. To me, it’s an example of the different way of thinking of God and humans. God, Christ and the Holy Spirit operate in a different realm than we do, and it’s often difficult to understand where one ends and the other begins. Ultimately, it calls for our faith in God’s “differentness” from human life and understanding. Two examples of this among many in the Gospels are John 6:35-66 and John 7:33-44. Isaiah 55:6-11 reminds us that God’s thoughts and ways are different than those of humans. Might I say profoundly different? Because of that, we cannot understand why God speaks and acts as He does. It calls for our faith in Him and His Word.
Thanks for the conversation!!! ...